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Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:04 pm

Ay ay Fire,
iam back for now and thought about a mapping contest wich you could dedicate to the stunters. Like everybody can build ONE map for each enviroment. This supports mappers and gives TMStunt the chance to get a bit more quality lol
Let me know what you think!

Best Regards,

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Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:53 pm

Top. Great idea. I will also build a map if i got enough time.
Best regards


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Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:23 pm

Hey Pepe,

this month we have already a Stunt Map Contest on TMX: ... 83081#auto

And we need much more Stunt Maps for the TMX KnockOut Stunt Contest (which can't be used in another contest): ... =auto#auto

The map content for the Fire Cup can be combined with the maps build in the mapping contest you're writing about.

I'm sceptical, if we have enough mappers for all these three competitions at the moment. To think positive, we can use the time to discuss the rules of the mapping contest etcetera. I hope you will be back for a longer time to do this a little bit later.

What do you think?

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Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:38 am

I guess that we should think about a rating system to get mapper AND Stunters attracted.
Just an idea:

It would be cool if we can get a lottery system for the mappers. What do you think about a weekly updated Server for 7 Weeks (7 envys)? But nobody is free in what he wants to build -> the community has the chance to choose a new theme per week where the mappers have to build a map in the envy they got through the lottery. So the player would also come back every week to see the brand new stuff.
For them its like a normal contest but different if they want to build too. You can get in when ever you want..

So now, whats the point to win? I know that alot of players disslike tracks in case of a lunatic building style. Thats a problem I dont know to solve, maybe we could have a judging system where only the old fire players could vote.
An example calculation (only to get an idea...but iam not satisfied lol)
Map Karma is at max. 100% -> max. 100pts per Map
Per Map you can get the first of 50 local recs -> 50pts for first, 49pts for sec. etc. etc. (its alot of evaluation but Stox, Magicuba, Rpee and me did it for the BHC CUP once or twice)

PS: ANOTHER Idea is to build teams: Mapper and Stunter. I dont know what the sense could be but it seems to be fun lol

What do you think?

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Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:36 pm

i've waited some days to think about, what you've written. By looking at the MTC Mapping Contest (Stunt) March 2018 i can find only 8 published maps. A really poor participation. And there's a great gap between the Pro-mappers and the others. But that's the situation in the moment. There are some mappers with heavy mapping skills and there are mappers, which are learning.

I've published 56 maps in TM2-Stunts since December 17, but none in TMUF in the last 10 years. I have been spoiled by the possibilities of the editor in TM2: blockmixing, envimixing, embedded items and free rotation of the items. I've tried to like the TMUF editor, but I hated the regulary popup: this block cant be set because blabla. I found out myself, that Challenge Edit exists, but it disturbs the flow. The Unlimiter is a mighty tool, but no one told me, that it is THE tool, which most good mappers use for NORMAL maps. And I don't know all risks using this tool. I'm missing a Mapping School:)

Why I'm telling these story?

Because its hard to expand the number of stunt mapper; not only because of the hard learning curve. There are more reasons i want to tell: the karma voting of maps by some players in the cup is very harsh and demotivating:
Some don't like the envi: ---
Some don't like the mapper: ---
Some don't understand the new tricks in the map: ---
Some hate Fun Maps: ---
Some hate Maps without a possible chain: ---
Its hard for new mappers not to get heavy downvotes, if they have no experience.

Whats the purpose of the Contest for me?
To motivate the Pros to do their best in mapping and helping the Newbies to climb the learning curve. And to motivate new or unexperienced mappers to publish maps which are not perfect, without demotivating them only by ---

The Mapping Contest:
- your System is imo to complicated for the low number of active mappers. Lets start more easy. One theme may be enough:
Time limit, a prosaic theme, envimix or not...
- we need a special server for it, the Fire Cup should go on. I can help paying for a server for 2-3 month, but not alone.
- we need a little group with mapper/stunter, which will do the contest (and understand how to prepare and handle a server). I think the contest should not be a pure Fire contest. I think about asking Brain, Glen, Sew and other active players -> a group independed from a clan (like in the BHC). Can you help asking?
- we need a decision, if players vote or a judging team.

I like the Rules of the MTC Contest, maybe a downgraded version is a good basis to discuss:
->only stunts mode -> no race/stunt mixes.
->all checkpoints must be respawnable.
->Map only 2 minutes max.
->Blockmixing is allowed.
->PF not longer than 15 sec.
->you can submit only 5 maps.
->include a letter combination in the mapname like MC18 (for example)
->the map has to be a new one, not a remixed one.
->updating the track within the deadline is allowed. Mappers should be respectfully shown better solutions for bad passages in the map and ideas for reworking the map.
->deadline: 4-6 weeks?

The Judging System (if not players vote):
Map Karma is at max. 100% -> max. 100pts per Map
- Design – Flow, smoothness, stunt variety, the general "feel" of the track
- Fun Factor – A map should make fun to play for all.
- Creativity - new mapping ideas which work

What do you (or others) think?

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Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:22 pm

First of all, great post, nam! (and good idea pepe :) )

Generally speaking, I really like the idea of you two, and I'd be willing to help.

Some ideas / improvements / remarks:

- I would like to have players vote for the maps, but as you mentioned, the problem is the voting mentallity, where a lot of maps get voted with ---.
Maybe one could circumvent this by doing some sort of two-sided contest. First the maps are built (according to the specified rules), then a contest on is held similar to the fire contest, but with a requirement to participate: You have to vote for at least 80% of the maps, and your average voting should not be lower than say 40% (numbers could be adjusted). (Is it actually possible to get what a specific player voted on all maps, Im not really experienced on that stuff).
Alternatively one could also do a mix of votes and a judging team.

- I really like the idea with feedback and map reworking, but in order for that to really happen regularly there would probably have to be some sort of incentive for it. (and depending on the map, some passages may be really hard to improve without changing everything behind it). Does someone have an idea how to do this?

- The rules you posted seem fine, I'd go for about 6 weeks map building time if we want people to submit more than one map.
I'd also try to write together some general guidelines for stuntmapbuilding, which could be seen as hints on what to look for while building a map (general, so I would try to make it applicable to all types of maps including eg. fun, luck, ... -maps).

- Finally, it all depends on how many players participate. If there are not enough map builders, or not enough players driving/testing/voting, it all doesn't really make that much sense. There probably has to be some advertisment for it and some good enough rewards to earn (and not just for the best drivers/mappers, since these are often the same, eg by giving special prices for beste scenery or similar?) - In form of coppers, a map dedicated to the player or sth else?)


PS: concerning TM Unlimiter I have next to no experience, until now, I only built maps using the regular tm editor.
Additionally I don't know much about server hosting apart from basic admin xaseco commands yet.

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